Carlos Fernando Chamorro is one of the most distinguished, and one of the most important, journalists in all of Latin America. On Wednesday, he and I met at the Oslo Freedom Forum. We recorded a podcast, a Q&A, here. Chamorro is a Nicaraguan. He is now in exile, in Costa Rica, with some 800,000 other Nicaraguans. Ortega and his gang have stripped Chamorro of his citizenship — but he is a lot more Nicaraguan than they are. Indeed, many of the best, the most patriotic, Nicaraguans have been stripped of their citizenship.
Chamorro is one of the four children of Pedro Joaquín and Violeta Chamorro. Their father was the editor of La Prensa, the newspaper that opposed the Somoza dictatorship. He was assassinated in 1978. Their mother was elected president of Nicaragua in 1990.
Carlos Fernando and his siblings and cousins and other relatives have been involved in politics and journalism — sometimes in prison, sometimes not. The story of the Chamorros strikes me as almost a Shakespearean drama, with shifting alliances, and great victories, and terrible defeats. Carlos Fernando was part of the Sandinista movement for some years. But, like so many, he turned into an opponent — a sharp thorn in the side of Ortega & Co. They raided his newsroom twice and hounded him out of the country.
Maybe I could provide a few excerpts from our Q&A. I will paraphrase my questions and his answers. The below is a simple taste.
I would like to know, right off the bat: How is your mother?
She is in fragile health. She is now in Costa Rica. She is in a condition of paralysis and unable to talk. She has been like that for five years. I like to think she can listen. So I sing to her, I tell her of my love.
It must be a privilege and a burden, both, to be a Chamorro.
My parents have always been an inspiration to me. But they made clear that I was to earn my own way and have my own life. I do. At the same time, I have this inspiration, or legacy: a beautiful sense of service, let’s say.
What were you hoping for out of the Sandinista revolution?
Change. Justice. A better life for people. The end of a dictatorship. Freedom.
Did your doubts set in suddenly or gradually?
I think it was a gradual process. I guess the first big shock was the civil war. It is so painful, civil war. It imposes a dehumanization on people. There is no more toleration. A war is different from a situation where people are political adversaries.
Nicaraguans have been able to find this refuge in Costa Rica. Why is Costa Rica so different from Nicaragua?
Costa Rica has gone through a process of reforms that lasted: economic reforms, political reforms, the elimination of the army after the civil war in 1948. These reforms have been much more durable than revolutionary changes. You have to create a sustainable democratic culture and sustainable democratic institutions.
I listen to my Costa Rican friends complain about problems in their country: corruption and this and that. I say, “Yes, but compare!”
As a rule, dictators have talents, bad or monstrous as those dictators are. They have wit, charisma — something. I don’t quite see the talent in Daniel Ortega.
Maybe this is not a good comparison, but he may be a tropical Stalin. Stalin did not have the intellect of Lenin or Trotsky. But he had a drive to power and a drive to eliminate rivals. An instinct for power. That’s where Ortega is. He has no scruples at all. Absolutely none.
His wife, the “vice president,” is his partner-in-crime, right? Rosario Murillo is a kind of co-dictator.
Yes. In the streets, people refer to “OrMu” — a combination of “Ortega” and “Murillo.”
What is the relationship between Russia and Ortega?
A relationship of dependence. For Ortega, it has mainly to do with politics, not the economy. Ortega wants to be seen as someone in the service of Putin. An ally of Putin. Nicaragua supported the invasion of Ukraine. Ortega repeats Kremlin propaganda, saying, for example, that Putin is saving the Ukrainians from the Nazis. These incredible things.
When it comes to the economy, however, Ortega is looking more to China.
At this stage, Ortega’s dictatorship is a totalitarian one. He is concentrating on his band of allies: Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela.
How about populism, in Latin America and elsewhere?
Among other things, populists always pretend to be fighting against “them.” Sometimes they describe “them” as the “elite.” (But they are part of the elite, of course.) We need to strengthen democratic culture and democratic institutions. But that’s not enough. Then, democracy must produce results. It must be effective. Otherwise, people will be tempted to follow the populists.
Is there anything the outside world — the Free World — can do for Nicaragua? Or is this totalitarian dictatorship a problem for Nicaraguans, only, to solve?
We are not an island. We are not isolated from the world. Our problems have to be solved in Managua, yes — not in Washington, Brussels, or London. But I always tell people, especially my colleagues in journalism: Pay attention to Nicaragua. There is a human-rights crisis there. There is great political persecution. This is also a regional problem. We need to get rid of Ortega’s police state so that people can express themselves and start a democratic transition.
It is not Nicaraguans who should be isolated but the Ortega dictatorship — isolated by the international community.
I think the press can do a lot just about talking about what is going on in Nicaragua.
[Again, to hear this Q&A, with Carlos Fernando Chamorro, go here.]