With Bernard-Henri Lévy, I have had a conversation. We have recorded a podcast, a Q&A, here. BHL, as you know, is a French philosopher, writer, and activist. His new book is Israel Alone.
Here in this post, I will jot a few notes about our podcast.
At the outset of our conversation, I ask kind of a trite question — but one I feel like asking nonetheless: “Where were you when you heard about the October 7 attack? What were your initial thoughts?”
I will paraphrase and abbreviate his answer:
I was in Paris, in my apartment, working. My immediate thought was that this was like September 11. There would be a “before” and an “after.” This was an event with a capital “E.”
Also, I wanted to go to Israel right away.
He flew there the next day, October 8. There was nowhere else he wanted to be. He felt compelled to demonstrate solidarity.
There is a coalition warring against Israel: Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran. And always “Russia in the background,” BHL says. (He elaborates on this question.) Remember, he has titled his book “Israel Alone.” I object to the title; I think it slights the role of the United States. But Lévy defends it.
He and I discuss the terrible question of Palestinian casualties. He is eloquent on the subject, and moving, too. Emotional. One of the things he says is this: Israelis, and supporters of Israel, are more heartbroken over the deaths of Palestinian innocents than Palestinian leaders are. Indeed, these leaders contrive to maximize those deaths. It is a tactic (and long has been).
A week or so ago, I podcasted with Natan Sharansky. Here. One of the things I asked him was, “What would ‘winning’ look like for Israel?” His answer, in a nutshell: “To win means that our enemies have no chance to destroy us.”
Bernard-Henri Lévy agrees — but he adds “another element,” as he says:
It is very important to prevent Hamas and Hezbollah from claiming victory. This is very important not only for Israel but for the whole region. If, after this war, Hamas and Hezbollah can claim even a bit of a victory, they will be seen as heroes, as new Saladins. They would pretend to be stronger than Israel and the West.
This would be a disaster — again, not only for Israel, but for Egypt, for Jordan, for Lebanon, of course. And for Palestinians.
Many, many Palestinians hope, either secretly or openly, for a normal life, a real life: a life without dictatorship, a life without terrorists. If Hamas and Hezbollah emerge from this war being able to say, “We did it, we resisted, we are heroes,” it would be a disaster for Palestinians.
No, Hamas and Hezbollah have to surrender. They have to admit defeat. They have to give up their arms. That would be victory.
The Iranian dictatorship has been a curse on humanity — on Iranians, on the Middle East, on the world — since 1979. How long can this go on?
It can go on and on, says BHL — or the regime could collapse suddenly. He watched this in the case of the Soviet Union. Virtually no one thought it was possible (no matter what people say now). But it happened.
Near the end of our podcast, our conversation turns to Ukraine — and the more general war. Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, and the rest are all lined up: against Ukraine and Israel, of course, but against the democratic world at large. It is imperative to beat them back, says Lévy.
Could Ukraine survive without the support of the United States? “It would be very difficult,” he says. We may well see very soon.
Where I live, there is a great deal of sympathy for Putin — and excuse-making for him. I saw the same kind of thing during the Cold War as well. BHL recalls the generation of his father in France — although this was not true of his father himself:
They thought that the beast had to be fed. Hitler had to be fed. If you feed the beast, it will calm down. But there is never enough food. It never works.
According to Lévy, Ukraine and Israel are front lines in a general war. Could Taiwan be another front line? If Putin is allowed to overpower Ukraine, says Lévy, that will tell Beijing all it needs to know.
I ask whether he has a final word. He does. On a book tour, he has been speaking at college campuses. He constantly has to explain why Israel is not an apartheid state or a colonial power. There is a great deal of ignorance out there, as well as malice; BHL works to dispel it.
A man who has important things to relate. Again, for our Q&A, go here.