Elon Musk, appearing for the third time on Joe Rogan’s podcast, repeated the idea that “waste, fraud, and abuse” are running rampant in the federal government, notably in the Treasury Department.

Musk, who heads the Trump administration’s Department of Government Efficiency but officially serves as an adviser, according to the White House, said his work would save the United States an estimated $100 billion per year through changes to the Treasury Department’s payment categorization codes. He claimed that these codes, which are used to identify where department transactions are being made, right now are “basically untraceable blank checks.”

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“This is the kind of thing that, if it was done as a public company, the company would be immediately delisted and the executive team would be thrown in prison. But this is just normal at the government,” Musk said.

He said DOGE will recommend that the payment categorization codes become “mandatory, not optional.”

“There needs to be an explanation — we’re not judging the quality of the explanation — but there should be some explanation for what this payment is for above nothing,” Musk said.

“That’s a radical change in the system that is being implemented,” he said. “My guess is that it probably saves $100 billion a year.”

When Rogan asked where the allegedly untraceable checks were after being sent, Musk said it was unclear if they fall into his waste or fraud category.

“This is where you get into the grey boundary between waste and fraud. If money is sent to a person or org from the government and you didn’t deserve it but the government sent it, is that waste or fraud?” Musk asked.

TRACKING WHAT DOGE IS DOING ACROSS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

Despite Musk’s high-profile and consistent posts on his social media platform, X, many still have questions about DOGE and what exactly it is doing. DOGE is facing a number of lawsuits about its moves and questions from lawmakers about its operations. 

According to a report from the Associated Press, nearly 40% of contracts that DOGE has been responsible for canceling are expected to produce no savings. DOGE has claimed it has saved the government in total $65 billion.