During a bruising, nearly two-hour interview, podcaster Tucker Carlson grilled neoconservative GOP Senator Ted Cruz of Texas on myriad foreign-policy issues, notably U.S. support for Israel, the senator’s calling Ukraine dictator Volodymyr Zelensky a “hero,” and the Biden administration’s destroying the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.
Like many evangelical Christians, Cruz believes the Israel described in the Bible’s book of Genesis is the modern political entity of Israel created in 1948. Carlson maintained that Cruz’s grasp of the subject is thin.
Unqualified support for Israel is mandated not only by the Bible, but also by vital American interests, Cruz said, reminding viewers that he vowed to be Israel’s No. 1 supporter in the U.S. Senate if elected in 2012.
Yet repeatedly throughout the interview, Cruz said that protecting U.S. interests is his principal concern.
In some of the testier few minutes, Carlson drilled into Cruz’s uncritical support for Israel. The wildly popular podcaster asked how much influence Israel had over the U.S. government and pressed Cruz to explain why he said he would be Israel’s top supporter in the Senate.
When Carlson pressed on AIPAC — the American Israel Public Affairs Committee — Cruz claimed that the group does not lobby on behalf of Israel’s government. However, it “raises a lot of money for me,” he confessed.
Cruz told Carlson that he was “obsessed” with the “Jews,” and was really asking, “Why are the Jews controlling our foreign policy?” Carlson denied what he called the “sleazy feline” implication that he is an antisemite.
After the back-and-forth about which of the two is “obsessed” with Israel, Cruz explained why he must unconditionally support a foreign nation: The Bible tells me so:
As a Christian growing up in Sunday school I was taught from the Bible [that] those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed, and from my perspective I want to be on the blessing side of things.
Carlson asked Cruz where in the Bible one can find that admonition. Cruz couldn’t answer.
The answer is Genesis, Carlson said. He continued:
So you’re quoting a Bible phrase; you don’t have context for it, you don’t know where in the Bible it is, but that’s like your theology. I’m confused.
Carlson asked whether the Israel described in the Old Testament means the nation of Israel created after the Irgun’s vicious terror campaign 77 years ago.
“We are commanded to support Israel,” Cruz said. “And we’re told those who bless Israel will be blessed.”
“Define Israel,” Carlson said.
Cruz: Define Israel? Do you not know what Israel is? That would be the country you’ve asked like 49 questions about.
Carlson: So that’s what Genesis … that’s what God is talking about?
Cruz: The nation of Israel, yes.
Carlson: So is that the current borders, the current leadership? He’s talking about the political entity called Israel?
Cruz: He’s talking about the nation of Israel. Yeah, nations exist and he’s discussing a nation. A nation was the people of Israel.
Carlson: Is the nation God is referring to in Genesis, is that the same as the country run by Benjamin Netanyahu right now?
Cruz: Yes, yes …
Carlson: I’m talking about the political entity of modern Israel. You believe that’s what God was talking about in Genesis?
Cruz: I do, but…
Carlson: That country has existed since when?
Cruz: For thousands of years. Now, there was a time when it didn’t exist and then it was recreated just over 70 years ago.
Cruz added that his belief about the biblical injunction is “personal” for him. And he is the leading supporter of Israel in the Senate, he said, because the nation is “our strongest ally in the Middle East … and supporting Israel benefits America.”
A nuclear Iran is the most pressing threat America faces, Cruz said, and “Israel is doing a massive favor to America right now by trying to take out Iran’s nuclear capacity.”
Carlson opened with Cruz’s reasons for wanting regime change in Iran.
“It’s not a complicated question,” Cruz said:
Is America better off with a country that has a leader who hates us and wants to kill us or to have a country with a leader who likes us and wants to be friends?
Cruz didn’t explain why countries have leaders who “hate us.” But in any event, on Ukraine, Cruz said dictator Zelensky “behave liked a pompous a**” during his Oval Office meeting with President Trump.
Cruz denied calling Zelensky a hero, said he isn’t a “Zelensky cheerleader,” and said that U.S. interests are his only concern.
“Why did I want Nord Stream 2 stopped?” Cruz asked. “Because it would strengthen Russia and Russia is our enemy. It’s entirely U.S. interest.”
Carlson: Did you support the industrial sabotage against it, blowing it up?
Cruz: So I think you believe America did that. …
Carlson: Of course.
Cruz replied:
I think the chances of that are zero.… I don’t know who did it.… I could see it being in U.S. interest to do that, to blow up Nord Stream 2. I just think Biden was too weak.
Still, Cruz said, “blowing it up was a good thing.” Ukraine or its European allies probably did so, he said.
In February 2023, former New York Times reporter Seymour Hersh, citing anonymous sources, reported that Navy divers destroyed the pipeline.
Cruz and Carlson closed with words over whether Russian President Vladimir Putin is an enemy of the United States.
Carlson said Putin is an enemy … because of policies that neoconservative Cruz supports.
The full interview can be seen here.