Even Republican consultants say the presidency seems out of reach this time around. With swing states controlled by Democratic governors and legislatures, and lax COVID-era voter laws still in place, the White House is out of reach. But Rich Baris says the experts have it wrong again. The director of the Big Data Poll says the 2024 race may be decided by the black and Latino male voters fleeing the Democratic Party in droves. So who gets the nomination—challenger Ron DeSantis or GOP frontrunner Donald Trump?

In this lively, fact-filled episode of Over the Target, Lee Smith speaks with Rich Baris, the pollster who speaks with voters.