This is an edited transcript of an episode of “The Ezra Klein Show.” You can listen to the conversation by following or subscribing to the show on the NYT Audio App, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.

There’s an old idea about science fiction that I’ve always loved: It aims to create cognitive estrangement, to make the familiar seem unfamiliar, so it can be looked at anew.

But sometimes the opposite is needed: We need to make the unfamiliar into the familiar, to see what is old in what feels new.

This can be a challenge with Donald Trump. He can appear as a hurricane of strangeness. It was a liberal rallying cry in his first term: Don’t normalize him. Remember, this is abnormal.

In a way, it’s no less true in his second term: An antivax conspiracy theorist for Health and Human Services secretary? That’s abnormal. A former “Fox & Friends” host for defense secretary? Abnormal. An underqualified hatchet man who has vowed to use the state to go after Trump’s enemies to lead the F.B.I. — and that the Senate would even consider him? Abnormal. Billionaire after billionaire trekking to the President-elect’s private club in Florida to curry favor with him? Abnormal.