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NYTimes
New York Times
1 Nov 2023
Sabrina TaverniseLynsea GarrisonDiana NguyenMichael BenoistPat McCuskerChris Wood


NextImg:Lessons From an Unending Conflict

Sydney Harper and

Alex Stern and

Marion Lozano and

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In late September, one of the world’s most intractable conflicts ended suddenly and brutally when Azerbaijan seized the enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh and tens of thousands of ethnic Armenians fled their homes.

Andrew Higgins, the New York Times bureau chief for East and Central Europe, explains how the conflict started, why it lasted for more than 30 years, and what its end can tell us about the nature of seemingly unsolvable disputes.


On today’s episode

Andrew Higgins, the East and Central Europe bureau chief for The New York Times.

ImageIn the back of a truck, a handful of people are looking out over the landscape. They are wearing winter coats.
Refugees from Nagorno-Karabakh arriving in the border village of Kornidzor, Armenia, in September.Credit...Nanna Heitmann for The New York Times

Background reading

  • After decades of wars and tense stalemates, almost no one saw it coming: Azerbaijan seized Nagorno-Karabakh from Armenian control seemingly overnight.

  • The military offensive prompted an exodus to Armenia.

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We aim to make transcripts available the next workday after an episode’s publication. You can find them at the top of the page.


Andrew Higgins contributed reporting.

Special thanks to Alina Lobzina, Ivan Nechepurenko, and Nyree Abrahamian.

The Daily is made by Rachel Quester, Lynsea Garrison, Clare Toeniskoetter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Chris Wood, Jessica Cheung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Leigh Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Marc Georges, Luke Vander Ploeg, M.J. Davis Lin, Dan Powell, Sydney Harper, Mike Benoist, Liz O. Baylen, Asthaa Chaturvedi, Rachelle Bonja, Diana Nguyen, Marion Lozano, Corey Schreppel, Rob Szypko, Elisheba Ittoop, Mooj Zadie, Patricia Willens, Rowan Niemisto, Jody Becker, Rikki Novetsky, John Ketchum, Nina Feldman, Will Reid, Carlos Prieto, Ben Calhoun, Susan Lee, Lexie Diao, Mary Wilson, Alex Stern, Dan Farrell, Sophia Lanman, Shannon Lin, Diane Wong, Devon Taylor, Alyssa Moxley, Summer Thomad, Olivia Natt, Daniel Ramirez and Brendan Klinkenberg.

Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Paula Szuchman, Lisa Tobin, Larissa Anderson, Julia Simon, Sofia Milan, Mahima Chablani, Elizabeth Davis-Moorer, Jeffrey Miranda, Renan Borelli, Maddy Masiello, Isabella Anderson and Nina Lassam.