What makes a good bad guy? Is it a sinister sneer or ice cold heart? Or are the best villains the ones you can almost relate to. The Wheel of Time Season 2’s big bad, Ishamael (Fares Fares), wanted to turn the Prime Video show’s young heroes to the Darkness to save them. While other Forsaken joined the Dark One in the Age of Legends for love or power, Ishamael was the only one to sign his soul over to the Dark because he believed it was the only way to end the suffering of humanity. At least, that’s how Ishamael and the Swedish actor playing him, Fares Fares, see it. That’s why it’s important for Ishamael to turn Rand al’Thor (Josha Stradowski), the reincarnation of his former best friend-turned-foe Lews Therin Telamon (Alexander Karim), to the Dark…so the Wheel can be broken and humanity can be liberated from its eternal suffering.

Unfortunately for Ishamael, things don’t go according to plan. Lanfear (Natasha O’Keeffe), his main ally in The Wheel of Time Season 2, ruins everything for him by concocting her own plan to woo her beloved Lews Therin/Rand to the Dark. The Wheel of Time Season 2 ends with Lanfear helping Rand and his friends secure a victory against Ishamael and with Ishamael gleefully disintegrating into ash.

Decider recently caught up with Fares Fares and talked to him about how the head Forsaken’s backstory informed his take on the character, why he initially chose to only break Lanfear out of her eternal prison, and how Ishamael really feels about Lews Therin. Oh, and we also asked if it’s possible we’ll see Ishamael again…

DECIDER: I am a big Wheel of Time nerd. I’ve read all the books and I’m just curious, were you aware of what a hit Ishamael and all the Forsaken were this season with the fandom? Or is that news to you?

FARES FARES: To be honest with you, I haven’t read much about it. And also because I live in Sweden… I don’t know. But you know, talking to some of the journalists today —I knew there was some [affection]. Rafe emailed me and said there was a lot of love for the characters. I knew there was some of that stuff out there, but I haven’t read anything myself. But I’m curious now to check it out, actually. [Laughs]

Well, I’m curious how much of a Ishamael’s backstory did you and Rafe discuss? Because, for many of the fans, his backstory is so important. I’m curious what you knew about who he was before he turned in the dark. Did it influence your performance or did you just go straight from the script?

No, I had to. I looked up some of the stuff and the stuff that stuck with me the most was that he was like a philosopher. That he truly, truly believed back then, when he was Aes Sedai, that people are suffering for no reason and that the only way to stop all this suffering is just to actually break the Wheel. That was very important stuff for me to take with me. And after that, I kind of like built the character on the scripts and also the chemistry with the other actors and stuff like that.

When Lanfear visits your character in Tel’aran’rhiod, she does so in the guise of Rand al’Thor, which had fans wondering if we’re supposed to interpret that your character had been best friends only with Lews Therin or in love with him. How did you interpret your character’s feelings for Rand and his predecessor, Lews Therin?

Well, that’s interesting. I want to keep it open. He was definitely one of his best friends and then also, like, if there was something else going on, it was probably very vague. It was just interesting, an interesting layer to play with. And I want to say, let’s just keep it at that. [Laughs]

So a question that Ishamael asks Lanfear out loud in the finale is why he brought her back first instead of all the other Forsaken and she has an answer that they balance each other. He doesn’t seem, I think, totally on board. I’m curious, what is your theory as to why your character chose to bring Lanfear back in this season and wait until the end for all the others?

I think before, you know, before they were Forsaken, probably they were really good friends. She was someone that he could confide to and then someone that he needed. So he needed her there, probably for his sake. But also he knew that she had the powers to be able to get to Rand and he could, at the same time, work on everyone else.

He probably also knew that, you know, considering the last scene that you see with Moghedien, that even though Lanfear is what Lanfear is, she’s probably much better to have around if you’re going to go do the diplomatic approach. The long-term approach that was his plan from the beginning. He wouldn’t have awakened the other Forsaken if the plan had progressed the way he wanted it to progress. By that, I mean, like taking his time. It would take so much more time for him to do it [that way]. He says it. Like, there’s no time. They’re never going to turn to our side. It’s too soon. He says that to Lanfear.

So you mentioned how Lanfear goes after Rand so your character can go after the others. There are a couple of really great scenes between you and Mat Cauthon, played by Dónal Finn. People had questions. Was he trying to honestly show Mat his past? Was he trying to help him? Was he lying to him? How did you perceive Ishamael’s plan with Mat Cauthon? 

You know, with Ishamael, it’s everything. [Laughs] He’s the Father of Lies, you know? I mean, he’s in total control and it’s all according to the plan. He also, at the same time, probably believes that he shows him [those visions], it’s going to make his job a lot easier. It’s basically, well, this is an easy case. I mean, at one time, he says to Lanfear like Mat was born mine. For him, it was kind of like I’m just going to show him and he’s going to want to take this path himself. I don’t even need to do a lot of convincing. 

But you can never completely trust him. Because you can point someone in a different direction [than the truth]. Say that this is the way I see things. You can also kind of lean into that.

Yeah, your character’s final line in the season is rather haunting. He passes away and he seems happy because he sees nothing. What does it mean for him to enter that nothingness? And, you know, if he could, do you think there’s a part of him that could have ever been tempted back to the Light or was he just doomed to the darkness?

I think he actually truly believes that — he suffers too much. He’s probably not someone that is very well. At least he wasn’t from the beginning. I think that he thinks that there’s only one way. You can’t turn the Dark into Light. You can’t end the suffering by, like the suffering can’t go away. The only way it goes away is just by ending it and breaking the Wheel.

I don’t think that Ishamael would turn to the Light, whatever the Light would mean for him. You know what I mean? Because for him, the right thing to do was to end everything. I do believe that he believed that was the only way you could end all the suffering. Like all the people suffering, and they had to do it again and again and again and again. This is the only way. By breaking the Wheel, they would suffer once and that’s it.

We’ve seen a couple of flashbacks to the Age of Legends, including one with you and the actor playing Lews Therin. Your character passed away, but is there a possibility you could return in future flashbacks down the line? Would you be open to returning to the show?

Well, who knows? You know? [Laughs] I mean, I love working on the show and who knows what will happen in the future? 

Your costumes were pretty amazing and very different from what we usually see in the fantasy world. Did you have a favorite look? And how did that vest make you feel?

I mean, it was great. I love the costumes and the vest was really, it was really good to put it on. No, it was great seeing Ishamael, giving him another layer by making him, in a way, a fashionista. His looks were very important. I mean, you could see that his hair was perfect and even the beard was — everything was perfect with him. It was a really nice little extra touch to give him.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.