Paul Azinger, captain of the triumphant United States team in the 2008 Ryder Cup, gets teed up for some Q&A with Post columnist Steve Serby before this year’s tournament at Long Island’s Bethpage Black:
Q: What kind of an impact can the New York crowd make?
A: I think the New York crowd is going to be vital to American success. I feel like everybody should behave and will behave properly at this competition. It’s golf and there’s a certain amount of decorum that’s expected, and if you get too far out of line, you’ll be asked to leave. But the enthusiasm of the crowd is going to be critical, and the American team cannot lose that energy if they want to win. So I’m sure Europe is thinking, “If we can take the crowd out of this the first morning…” And I think Europe’s goal is to blitz and jump on the American team the first morning. I warned Keegan [Bradley, the U.S. captain] about how they prepared last time. Europe practiced playing three-hole matches against each other for decent amounts of money and they kept switching the groups around, and the whole idea was to play three-hole matches in an effort to realize that you had to get off to a hot start, a quick start in your little money match. And that was the tone that Luke [Donald, the Europe captain] set, so that when those guys got on the first tee on Friday morning, they were ready to pounce and the Americans, most of ’em had taken five weeks off. We were completely outprepared. So I warned Keegan about that. I told Keegan I felt like that they may do the same thing, but they may have to study the course, you know? It’s gonna be an interesting dynamic. Keegan can’t lose the crowd. The Americans need to jump ’em the first day.
Q: What’s the most raucous Ryder Cup crowd you remember?
A: I would say our 2008 Ryder Cup was crazy-great in Louisville, Kentucky. But you have to go back probably to ’99, when that was going on there, that big comeback at Brookline, is probably the biggest. It’s hard to say because they’re all just massive now. I’m trying to remember Hazeltine, that was some of the greatest drama, some of the most dramatic stuff with Rory [McIlroy] shaking his finger at Patrick Reed, then Patrick Reed shushing or vice versa. That was probably as loud as it could ever get. It feels like all the big-time crazy crowds have always been in the U.S.
Q: The psychological warfare that you remember best?
A: There’s an element of gamesmanship in match play — psychological warfare, that’s a little deep for what they’re trying to do. There’s a measure of gamesmanship that I think is accepted when you play match play. It’s kinda fun to chat and talk at your guy sometimes. When a guy has a putt that’s juuust not quite a gimme and he’s looking at you like he’s begging for you to give it to him … that’s the fun of match play. “Don’t even look at me like that, I’m not giving you that.” Stuff like that (laugh). It’s great, it just is great. It’s really a race to see who can get the most relaxed the fastest. Because the intensity and the anticipation now is building dramatically. I feel like that angst and that anticipation, it’s a big deal for them, and it just builds and builds until you finally get to tee off. And then it becomes a race to see who can get back into their head, normal thinking, and who can relax the soonest, the fastest. Europe pounced on us last year. I actually set the Ryder Cup up last year like that. I think it’s a race to see who can get relaxed the quickest, and Europe won that race by a wide margin.
Q: Could you describe the difference in emotions, the euphoria and the disaster of winning and losing a Ryder Cup?
A: I would say it’s so empty to lose — or tie. It’s as if it was a waste. And then you get home and no one says anything to you and there’s nobody waiting for you, and you don’t know what to say. It’s hard, it’s devastating to not win it, I’m telling you. It affects the players. To win it is euphoric. And it’s euphoric while you’re with the players and you’re hanging out. And then when you leave, it goes back to a little bit what Scottie Scheffler said: “Happy for like six minutes, and then I’m ready for the next tournament.” Remember when he said that? You don’t realize your legacy building when you’re doing it. Winning it is euphoric while you’re with the players, because it is truly a team effort. I feel like our team in ’08, those guys, they continue to play practice rounds together in their little pods, which is kinda cool (laugh). And I love all the guys I ever played with and against at Ryder Cup. Playing against those guys now, we realize now our generation was the generation that everybody first fell in love with the Ryder Cup. They were all watching us doing it.
Q: Why is the pressure on the U.S.?
A: I feel like they have to always win at home, and they were dominated by the same group of players that are coming back, which is very rare in a Ryder Cup. I feel like the New York crowd can be hard, too. The pressure’s to get off to a good start the first morning.
Q: Why is the U.S. the underdog?
A: Europe’s returning 11 of the 12 guys, and the one guy that wasn’t on the team last year, his identical twin brother was on the team. So it’s the 12 same heads, but it’s one different person (laugh), which I think is hilarious. Experience is definitely an advantage here for Europe, they’re gonna be confident, they outprepared the Americans by a wide margin the last time, and we just don’t know what to expect out of the American team at this point. Interesting dynamic of American players. I like our team, but I feel like the pressure’s on them.
Q: What do you like about the U.S. team?
A: I like all their personality styles. I like the way they compete. You’ve got a superstar in [Scottie] Scheffler, you have all those steady, real rock-solid personality types like Xander Schauffle and Collin Morikawa. Then you’re mixing in the Bryson [DeChambeau] element, which is an interesting dynamic. I would use Bryson as best I could to anchor the third or fourth [pair] out, [or] maybe even start matches. But I think he’s the most beloved player on the team, and I would have Bryson out as much as possible.
Q: If you were giving a pep talk to this team, what would you tell them?
A: I would just remind them, really, because I don’t think great players need pep talks, I think they need reminders of how good they are. They’re the 12 best that we have to offer to represent the United States. That’s a given. I feel like my message to them would be that we can’t hope for this or wish for this, we have to outprepare these guys, and I would try to have the players bonded with a secret somehow in the way they prep. I would come up with something creative to make them feel like they’ve done something that the other team hasn’t. But the bottom line is they’re big-time professionals and they’re great at what they do. But I think the message of preparation is just a reminder that you’re not there to hope for it or wish for it, we still have to outprepare these guys.
Q: Have you spoken to Keegan Bradley about the chemistry among this group?
A: Yes, he loves the chemistry, the dynamic that he’s got. He’s got all the players fairly well figured out as to where they’re gonna pair up at this point. I believe that they’re going to be energized by Keegan. I think Keegan has to maybe steady himself emotionally if things get heated during the competition. He has to message his players correctly. You have to know the guys well enough to know what to say to one guy and what not to say. And I feel like he’s just really checked all the boxes. He easily could have qualified for the team — he certainly is in the top 12 Americans. I feel like he’s gonna be pretty buttoned up. He knows what he’s doing.
Q: What can you tell me about Bethpage Black?
A: It’s a monster golf course. I don’t like it for me, personally. I’m used to playing fairly flat courses in my lifetime. A lot of downhill tee shots, awkward angles and then uphill second shots. At the [2002] U.S. Open setting, the rain that week was substantial, and it really neutralized us the first day. I didn’t enjoy it. I thought it was really too hard, and Tiger ended up winning it that year. But it’s the same for all the players. Does it give either team an advantage? I don’t know. I think it’s a golf course where you have to be a fairly powerful player, and I feel like both teams are bringing some real strong players in there. Look at Europe, if you look at that team, they are physically just a powerful team, they’re gonna launch it.
Q: Before your idea of pods in 2008, did you know any Navy SEALs personally?
A: I did know a couple of guys that were Navy SEALs, one guy was an orthopedic surgeon. He was just really structured, everything he did. I knew a couple of guys that were supposedly with Blackwater, which is sort of a private company that does “stuff” (laugh). All in all, I feel like I just stumbled on that documentary and that concept of taking large groups and making them into small groups. I just thought about the Ryder Cup right away because Europe’s bonded by nationality. The Englishmen play together, the Irishmen usually play together, the Swedes, the Spaniards … it just goes on and on. They’re bonded by blood. We want to win so much, but it’s in our head, you know? It’s in their blood, it’s just who they are, it’s their tour that they’re representing as well. I feel like they always have kind of a 1 percent advantage on us every Ryder Cup just because of emotionally the way they handle it and how they’re bonded by nationalities.
Q: When did you realize that your Navy SEAL approach was working?
A: I felt like it really wasn’t til it was over, but I felt like it was so easy to pair the players once I had ’em in their pods. It was the most relaxing thing because everything was kinda pre-set Day 1, Day 2. I only made one change really in the first two days, and that was Anthony Kim, who was hurt. But other than that, everything was kinda pre-planned, and we just stuck to it and players knew where to be. But it wasn’t until the outcome was over, it got close on Sunday. But we were the heavily underdog team. If you look at the names on our team and then compare ’em to the names on Europe’s team, how do we beat those guys? Well, we were so buttoned-up and organized, it was kinda chaotic on the other side. I don’t think [then-Europe captain Nick] Faldo was a favorite of Sergio [Garcia] or [Lee] Westwood, who were both on his team. That hurt ’em a little bit.
Q: So your guys were like a one-man band?
A: They were, and we were all bonded with a secret. We thought the pod system was so cool and so unique, and we didn’t want to tell anybody what we were doing. And I gave ’em all ownership, too, in their pods. I had three three-man teams made, and I was using the Myers-Briggs, the green light, caution light, red light personality types. I had been telling these guys about the Navy SEALs concept, and it was small-group concept. And they all loved it. And when I finally really needed to pick, it was time to pick, I called ’em all back individually, all nine of my guys, all eight of my guys. I picked [Steve] Stricker first, so I really had three three-man teams. I called those guys and said, “Hey, look, I’m gonna let you pick who fills out your team.” Gosh, I think Justin Leonard, Anthony Kim and Phil Mickelson, they picked Hunter Mahan, who was a green-light personality for their group. They had six guys to choose from. The other two pods had three guys to choose from, they picked who filled out their pods. And suddenly these guys would run through a wall for each other. They were fully invested. And that’s hard to get that to happen. But that’s how Europe is. They show up fully invested like that. I had to do it, I thought, a different way. We always rolled into Ryder Cup kinda willy-nilly. What I did was probably outside the box, that’s for sure, and it got our guys really engaged right away.
Q: Describe green light, yellow light, red light personality.
A: Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson, kind of red-light personality types — they’re both dominant, controlling. They’re both really good. Green lights are guys that maybe both organize their sock drawer by color … the steady, supportive personality types. But we used the Myers-Briggs, and that’s a model that was built many, many years ago in an effort to know where to put people in business and how to partner people up. I had Dr. Ron Braund come in and help me with that. We tried to get personality types that were considered green lights together. So that was our mission, and I threw the light games out the window, I threw friendships out the window, I did everything based on the Myers-Briggs and the small group concept, the Navy SEALs concept. They knew they were put together by personality, and they loved it. They loved it.
Q: Why did you choose Anthony Kim, who was a rookie, to start things off against Sergio Garcia?
A: Because he was playing the best. And the fact that he bumped into Sergio was a great gift to us because he asked me all week if he could play Sergio — “I want to play Sergio.” It was a blind draw. A.K. played so good, he was our emotional leader, he was our team leader, and he was the youngest guy on the team. And he had to go first.
Q: You didn’t have any Navy SEALs talk to them?
A: None of that military stuff. The only guy that came in was the great Lou Holtz. He used an acronym for us: W.I.N. — what’s important now. It was really effective, and he was great for the team. The president came in, Bush 41 came in the team room one of the nights before the matches were over.
Q: What did he say?
A: I don’t quite recall, but I’ve tried to stay away from all that motivational stuff, because when I played Ryder Cup, that made me more nervous. I’ve seen Michael Jordan wishing us good luck and then the president … I didn’t like all that. So I didn’t do any of that. I didn’t talk about winning and losing. I only pressed preparation. I just was reminding them how to prepare, and another thing, too, I felt like because I knew the players’ personalities, I think they all had confidence in my confidence in them. I wanted every player on the team to think I thought they were the best player on the team, and I was able to do that and very sincerely. I knew Kenny Perry was Kentucky’s own Kenny Perry, and I can encourage him to go into character like Tiger. I told him a story about how Tiger would show up in character — black pants and a shirt the color of blood. He announced it to us all, and those were his power colors. I said, “You gotta show up in character this week. You’re Kentucky’s own.” The little things … We went to the Muhammad Ali Museum, and after the 12-minute video or 17 minutes, whatever it was, and when the film wound down, I stood up in a little theater there, and I said: “You know, when I was 15 years old” — I might’ve been 14, now that I think about it — I said, “I remember watching Muhammad Ali fight Ken Norton,” which we saw the highlights of that fight. It was on ABC, and I said, “Ken Norton broke Muhammad Ali’s jaw in the first round, and he never quit. He finished the fight.” I just never forgot that. I don’t think you should ever forget anything like that. “Broke his jaw, and he never quit. That’s it, let’s go eat.”
Q: So that was one of the rare motivational ploys you used?
A: That was one. I guess I did do that. Muhammad Ali came out and watched us. I actually gave a little talk in Muhammad Ali’s house. And I told that same story, and he was sitting in front of me. Parkinson’s had hit him hard. It looked like he was asleep or his eyes were closed anyway, but he was listening to me. And I told that story about how we just watched the documentary and how excited I was to be standing here behind you and that I remembered that fight. And I’m not kidding you, when I said that about him never quitting after he had his jaw broke, I think he wanted to see who that was talking. And he was far enough away and he just kinda started bouncing a little and he lifted his whole body up, he looked me right in the eyes, and he went back down. And it just gave me butterflies, gave me chills. I had Muhammad Ali-autographed glove, and I have his robe, everything.
Q: How long before the Ryder Cup began was this happening?
A: The Monday night is when we went to the Muhammad Ali Museum, and this was Tuesday when I saw Muhammad Ali, the next night.
Q: You once said you wished golfers were like boxers.
A: Well, wouldn’t it be great if Ryder Cup could be full contact? But golfers don’t fight. Let me just tell you in dead seriousness, one of the reasons I said that was because a boxer will tell you, “I am gonna knock you out in the third round.” They’re so confident and so cocky. But a golfer can’t be that way. If you have a four-shot lead going into the final round, you can’t say, “It’s over. You guys are battlin’ for second.” You just can’t do it. But a boxer could. In my mind, I wish I had the confidence of a boxer. If I had a three- or four-shot lead or if I looked at those two guys in a match, I would like to tell ’em before we teed off, “You’re goin’ down.” Golfers can’t do it, we can’t. It’s too humbling (laugh).
Q: A quick scouting report on each American. Bryson?
A: The most dynamic player, the most exciting player in the game today that we never get to see anymore.
Q: Patrick Cantlay?
A: Steady Eddie, Patty Ice rarely disappoints.
Q: Ben Griffin?
A: Ben Griffin is gonna be your secret assassin. He’s gonna be your babyfaced assassin.
Q: Russell Henley?
A: Russell Henley is gonna be your Steady Eddie. I think Russell Henley can come out looking like a star because Russell Henley’s a clutch putter.
Q: Coliln Morikawa?
A: Colin Morikawa has the pedigree to dominate any match.
Q: Xander Schauffele?
A: Xander Schauffele had an incredible season last year. I feel like he’s so steady, he’s the one guy you don’t want to play.
Q: J.J. Spaun?
A: J. J. Spaun is, I think, a surprise champion. Nobody saw it coming, and he has a chance to become a superstar in the eyes of the country.
Q: Scottie Scheffler?
A: Scottie Scheffer is the most dominant figure in the game, best player by a wide margin, and he is a critical element to the team’s chances of winning.
Q: Justin Thomas?
A: Justin Thomas is the emotional leader, and it’s imperative that Justin Thomas has a good first day.
Q: Cameron Young?
A: I’m thrilled that Cameron Young’s on the team. He pencilled Bethpage Black Ryder Cup on his calendar when he was a teenage boy. And nobody’s more excited to be there than him.
Q: Harris English?
A: Harris English is one of the most steady players out there. He drives it nice, he has total control of his emotions. I think he’ll have a good Ryder Cup.
Q: Sam Burns?
A: Sam Burns is a bulldog. He’s a match-play champion, and he knows how to close out a match.
Q: Captain Keegan Bradley?
A: Keegan Bradley has left no stone unturned. He will be an emotional leader, and I feel like he will message the players correctly and create an environment for them to be the best they can be.
Q: What is your view on the vice captains?
A: The vice captains are not as experienced as I would like to see. Other than Jim Furyk, I don’t think his vice captains have a lot of experience.
Q: Your rivalry with Nick Faldo?
A: I had more of a rivalry with him than he had with me (laugh), because he got the best of me at that British Open, but I got the best of him at the PGA Championship in ’93. I would say it’s a very cordial rivalry, and I feel like now, when I see any of those past Ryder Cup players or when they see me, I think we all just love each other now.
Q: Your most memorable Seve Ballesteros memory?
A: We had the most killer match in 1989. And Curtis [Strange ]told me when I drew [Seve for the] singles first match out on Sunday, he said, “Don’t let him pull anything on you today.” The paint was coming off the balls and we had square grooves, and guys were taking the ball out of play. We weren’t allowed to do that, had to be visibly cut. And he says, “I take this ball out of play.” And I looked at it … Mine looked worse. I said, “Seve, I don’t think you can take this ball out of play. I think we should ask the referee.” This is the second hole of the match. And he says, “Is this the way you want to play today?” We finished our match, and I won. I made a putt on the last hole. He goes, “Is OK we flush these like old toilet water.”
Q: Tell me about your lymphoma battle.
A: I won 11 tournaments in seven years, and then it was over. I was at the top of the world, and I was diagnosed with non-Hodgins lymphoma in my right shoulder. It had been bothering me for six months. It wasn’t in my blood. I did six months of chemo, five weeks’ radiation, and nothing’s come back. One false alarm, and that’s it. And then I finally clawed my way back and won in 2000, I won a Hawaiian Open after I did the eulogy after Payne Stewart died. And I also invented the belly putter, and that’s the first weekend anyone ever used a belly putter on the PGA Tour.
Q: What was that like for you giving the eulogy for your friend?
A: It was emotional. I just hid away for two or three or four days. Tracey [Stewart’s widow] asked me if I would do it. I had no idea how to do a eulogy. … I knew some stories about Payne. We were best friends. God gave me the strength to get through that. I sat there waiting to give that eulogy wondering if I was gonna bawl my head off and not get through it. And I did, I got through it. I saw Orel Hershiser down there crying like a baby, and I cried a little bit like a baby. I wish I wouldn’t have. … The first time I met Payne in 1982, he had acupuncture in his ears. I thought it was an earring. And he goes, “I’m doing that for concentration.” And then he wins the tournament. I started reading anything that would make me think, visualize or concentrate. It was because of Payne. He planted the seed. … Tracey Stewart said at the end of her eulogy for her husband, “Let the party in heaven begin.”
Q: Your greatest moments as a player?
A: Winning the PGA Championship was my greatest moment. And then probably my most exciting, most memorable, is holing the bunker shot to beat Payne Stewart in 1993 at the Memorial at Jack’s tournament. I won the PGA Championship a couple of months later.
Q: In 1987, you bogeyed the last two holes against Faldo.
A: I lost the British Open. I led the whole week. I ended up being the Player of the Year that year. It was a devastating feeling, yet I was gonna be Player of the Year. It’s such an emotional roller coaster. I really matured when I was 27. I never broke 70 until my second year of college, so I was a late bloomer. It was a meteoric rise, and it lasted that seven-year stretch. And I had a lot of heartache. I lost the PGA Championship in ’88. … I had chances to win the U.S. Open. … You just look back and think, “Man, I thought I would get so many chances, and you just let it get away.” That’s why I admired Tiger. He just never let it get away. Name all the tournaments Tiger let get away. It just didn’t happen. Mickelson let some get away.
Q: Your 1983 Vogue motor home?
A: My wife and I lived in a Vogue mini-motor home. It was 24 feet long. We lived in it for four years. We slept in the cab over top. We had a cat. It was awesome before we had children. We had the time of our life, we travelled the whole United States. I lost my [tour] card in ’82, 1983 we lived in it. We lived in it in ’82 for half the year. We lived in it all of ’84. ’85, we had a baby in December, and that was it. We got a little condo.
Q: Your golf heroes growing up?
A: Jack, Arnold … I loved Billy Casper, too.
Q: Three dinner guests?
A: Bobby Jones, [Ben] Hogan and (Sam) Snead.
Q: Favorite movie?
A: “O Brother, Where Art Thou?”
Q: Favorite actor?
A: Johnny Depp.
Q: Favorite actress?
A: Meryl Streep.
Q: Favorite meal?
A: Seafood.
Q: What are you most proud of about your impact on that 2008 Ryder Cup?
A: I was proud that I was able to be responsible for that and to represent the United States. To be in charge of that competition was incredibly humbling, and it shows a tremendous amount of confidence in a lot of people. The PGA of America lets you do this. They show a lot of confidence in your personality and your ability to manage yourself. And I’m really proud and humbled by that opportunity. But overall, I’m probably as proud as anything that I could always look at myself in the mirror and be like, “I left no stone unturned.” Everything I did was in an effort to make it a great experience for the players. I tried to make it about everybody but me. But then when I finally look in the mirror after it’s over, it was all about me, because I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t do something different, if I didn’t leave every stone unturned, if I didn’t help set up the course some. We had control of the course back then. I think they took that away.
Q: How disappointing was it that you were not captain two years later?
A: It might’ve been a relief. At the time, I was waiting before I could make my decision because I was just enjoying what happened so much and kinda taking it all in. … I felt like I was ready when I called the PGA of America, and I called maybe four days too late. And they had already made a decision without any input from past captains. But I did call and say, “I would like to carry the flag to Europe if you’ll have me.” And they said, “There’s more captains than there are Ryder Cups. And plus we’ve already chosen Corey Pavin. We’ve already told him.” I said, “Oh, wow, OK.” I was surprised. [Tom] Watson got to do it again since I did it, and then also Davis [Love] did it twice. I lobbied for Davis to do it again. He’s PGA pedigree. If ever anybody needed a second shot, it was Davis Love.
Q: If anybody needed a second shot, it was you.
A: Well, maybe I could’ve taken a second shot. I’m not ever doing it now. I’m kickin’ back now (laugh).
Q: What would be your message to the New York team and to the New York crowd?
A: To the U.S. team I would say I would embrace the crowd. And recognize them as the 13th Man. And I would message the crowd if I had an opportunity. We had a pep rally the night before the matches, and I told the players, I told the whole crowd — there was 15,000 people there — “You can cheer when they miss.” And I got roasted for that in the press the next day. And I said, “They cheer when we miss, and I just don’t think that our fans understand that,” and I wanted to make sure that they knew that was OK.
And then I would tell the crowd, “You are our 13th Man. We’re banking on you.” I would have 13th Man T-shirts … I own the phrase 13th Man, and they won’t let me do it. This would have been a great 13th Man week.
I feel like that the U.S. team has a great chance to upset Europe, but they have to get off to a good start.
Have you been to a Ryder Cup? Can you be on the first tee Friday morning? It’ll blow any World Series, any Super Bowl, any Game 7, it’ll blow it away, and you’ll be saying, “Man, I’m sure glad Azinger told me to be down here.”
Q: What’s it like? Explain it to me.
A: Well, I’ll tell you what it’s like. There’s gonna be four, five thousand people, and they’re gonna be singing. … It’s gonna be the most energetic, most jacked-up crowd you’ve ever heard or seen in your life. And those guys, it’s like walking into a cauldron of noise and expectation, and the tension is unbelievable.There’s nothing like it in sports. And Europe has all their songs, and the Americans now are learning to have some songs. We got a couple of professionals in the crowd starting chants and cheers now. That was one of the things Stricker did is he hired some guys to go into the crowd that knew how to start some chants and got the American crowd going crazy in [2021].
Q: Dueling chants?
A: It’ll be dueling chants. Europe’ll start singing, “I’m a Yankee Doodle Dandy,” and then (laugh) we don’t know what to do. Europe has more fun. That is the most fun crowd you’ll ever be around.
Q: Then the U.S. has to have a corresponding chant.
A: Exactly. But we don’t. All we got is “U-S-A! U-S-A!”
Q: That’s probably enough.
A: That’s all we got. They got a million songs. They have a chant or a different song for every player that walks on the tee. Our boys come on the tee, and then Europe’ll be going, “How come you don’t have a song? How come you don’t have a song?” They’ll start singing we don’t have a song.
Q: What would you recommend or suggest for the crowd?
A: I would say that Keegan needs to get a guy in there to create some great chants. We had great chants last time. We gotta own the crowd. We gotta own the crowd.