It's a matter of logic.
If you're not pro-life if you oppose abortion but support the death penalty, then you're not pro-life if you oppose the death penalty but support abortion.
But it's not clear that Pope Leo embraces that logic. And no one on the panel on today's CNN This Morning did
Substitute host Erica Hill kicked off the conversation by playing a clip of Pope Leo expressing support for Dem Sen. Dick Durbin. He was scheduled to receive a "Lifetime Achievement" award for his pro-immigrant stance. Some bishops opposed the award given Durbin's staunch support of abortion.
In the clip, Pope Leo said:
"Someone who says I'm against abortion but says I'm in favor of the death penalty is not really pro-life. So, someone who says that I'm against abortion but I'm in agreement with the inhuman treatment of immigrants in the United States, I don't know if that's pro-life."
Interestingly, Pope Leo didn't make the converse argument: that someone who opposes the death penalty but supports abortion is not pro-life.
No one on the panel made that argument either.
And whereas there were three explicitly pro-choice panelists, there was no outspoken pro-life member of the "Group Chat." Rep. Sam Liccardo and strategist Meghan Hays described themselves as pro-choice Democrats. Ashley Davis described herself as a pro-choice Republican.
Liccardo was entirely oblivious to his own hypocrisy. Saying that he "wholeheartedly" agreed with Pope Leo's statement, he added "If we're going to talk about protecting life, we can't pick and choose." But as the Mayor of San Jose, California, Liccardo supported "Proposition 62: Repeal the death penalty." That's picking and choosing, Sam.
Former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, now a CNN commentator, was the only panelist who didn't express a bottom-line view on pro-choice/pro-life. In his days in the House, he received high marks from pro-life groups, but also moderate support from Planned Parenthood and NARAL.
He said:
"The words of Jesus are about much more than just anger and taking over government. It is about life from basically birth to death, which includes immigrants, includes the down and out and how to treat them."
So Kinzinger expressed concern for immigrants and the down and out. However, no Kinzinger concern expressed for the humanity of babies before birth, or for those seeking the ultimate punishment for individuals who have committed the most heinous crimes.
And note that Kinzinger also expressed support for life "from basically birth." No support for babies before birth?
Hays said that the conversation "points out the hypocrisy in some of these things." She didn't state her view on the death penalty, but if, like the overwhelming majority of elected Democrats and their consultants, she opposes it, then isn't she among the hypocrites?
Host Hill didn't state an explicit opinion on abortion, but she did suggest that it is:
"Crossing a line by alienating the faith of other Americans if a lawmaker is putting theirs above everyone else's."
Translation: Those self-righteous religious pro-lifers are denigrating the faith of pro-choice Americans.
Note: Republican Davis won the Wishy-Washy Award. The most she ventured was that the discussion was "Very interesting. But, um, so it's, I mean, it's a difficult conversation." Bold stuff, Ashley!
Here's the transcript.
CNN This Morning
9/2/25
6:53 am EDTERICA HILL: Pope Leo, the first American-born Pope, challenging what it means to be pro-life. It's one of the first times he's weighed in specifically on American politics like this. Take a listen.
POPE LEO: Someone who says I'm against abortion but says I'm in favor of the death penalty is not really pro-life. So, someone who says that I'm against abortion but I'm in agreement with the inhuman treatment of immigrants in the United States, I don't know if that's pro-life. So they're very complex issues.
HILL: Those comments coming in support of Illinois Senator Dick Durbin. He was facing backlash over a lifetime achievement award from Chicago's archdiocese for his work helping immigrants. Some conservative bishops did not want Durbin to receive the award because of his support for abortion rights. Durbin ultimately declined it. In an interview with NBC, he said he was overwhelmed by the support from the Pope.The group chat is back. Congressman, I see you nodding your head as we're talking about that moment. What do you make of these comments from Pope Leo?
SAM LICCARDO: Well, I'm a pro-choice Catholic, so no expert on the subject, but like tens of millions of other Americans, I think I agree wholeheartedly. If we're going to talk about protecting life, we can't pick and choose. And certainly, treatment of immigrants, treatment of those who are convicted, we have to be consistent in our values.
. . .
ASHLEY DAVIS: I just think it's very interesting. I'm a pro-choice Republican as well, so, I mean, you're not a Republican. You are. But, um, so it's, I mean, it's a difficult conversation.
. . .
HILL: You say it's a difficult conversation. Maggie, does it open up, though, an important conversation about, because we are so quick in this country to throw a label at people, right? And if you believe one thing, then you have to check all these other boxes. And that's not the way most people live their lives, nor is it how they feel about things. So could it be an important point to open up that conversation?
MEGHAN HAYS: Absolutely. I also think that it points out the hypocrisy in some of these things. But I also think for Democrats, we subscribe to a purity test with the Democratic Party. And you have to check every single box and have to be perfect on every single issue. And that's just not, as you're pointing out, that's just not the way people live.
And I grew up Catholic. I am still Catholic to this day. I am also pro-choice. But I've been to church with multiple politicians who have been denied communion because they are pro-choice. So I appreciate that the Pope is weighing in. I just wish that sometimes we would stay out of politics. And I understand what he's doing here, and it's an important conversation to have, but we are not experts here, and sometimes I think religion and politics, there's a reason they are separate in this country, and they should stay.
HILL: Are they really separate in this country?
ADAM KINZINGER: No!
HAYS: Well, they were supposed to be separate. They should be, and they were supposed to be.
KINZINGER: The thing that I think is good about this is, as a Pope Leo fan but Protestant, one of the things I've done, especially in the last few years with kind of how I was raised, what I believe, and as I've kind of deconstructed my faith, is, the words of Jesus are about much more than just anger and taking over government. It is about life from basically birth to death, which includes immigrants, includes the down and out and how to treat them.
And I think this is very important, particularly, again, for my party on some of the treatment side. Like, are you OK? Deportations, they need to happen. Are you celebrating this in glee, or are you doing this with kind of a mournful spirit of like, we have to enforce this, but we wish everybody could stay. We can't.
And that's where I think it's important is to kind of look into your heart and say, okay, what is pro-life? What is, you know, what does it mean to treat people well? And is my faith really in line with how I'm acting?
HILL: And how much should, not that a person, faith is such an important part for many people of their decision-making. In fact, for a number of, millions of people, right? It influences more than anything else, the way they make decisions. And that includes politicians.
But increasingly, there is a question about, is it crossing a line by alienating the faith of other Americans if a lawmaker is putting theirs above everyone else's?