On Thursday’s CNN This Morning, Audie Cornish interviewed Mark Bray, a disgraced Dartmouth lecturer turned Rutgers University professor who had openly defended Antifa’s proclivities. The segment was instigated by Wednesday’s roundtable discussion at the White House, which included President Trump, members of his cabinet, and individuals personally affected by Antifa.

It’s first worth noting that Cornish at least had a (yet insufficient) definition for the terrorist group: “Traditionally, Antifa has not been seen as a formal organization, for instance, with a leader or hierarchy or command structure.”

Only three weeks prior, Cornish lamely claimed to not understand Antifa, calling it an “amorphous concept.” Luckily, Bray came on to set the record straight!

The CNN This Morning host set up Bray to delude the established nature of Antifa, citing his supposed expertise on the group (Click “expand”):

CORNISH: Now, as we said, you are a researcher who's kind of studied this movement. Do you think of Antifa as a movement or, as you heard the DHS Secretary say, likening it to a gang.

BRAY: Oh my gosh. No. Antifa is a kind of a politics or a movement. It's short for anti-fascist in a number of languages. Its history goes back more than 100 years to opposing Hitler and Mussolini. I bring that research to bear in my book, and you can read about it. I'm a researcher. I support anti-fascism insofar as I think fascism is not good. And I think the direction this country is heading is really, really scary. And I'm witnessing a little bit of that of myself.

Hm. Now that Bray himself had been the target of harassment, violent measures were suddenly off-limits. There was once a time when Bray was in favor of confronting white supremacists and neo-Nazis in a less than peaceful manner, a stance which got him fired from his lectureship at Dartmouth College.

In fact, Bray still found a way to justify the blood-stained name:

But the implications of this, by coming up with a phrase as broad as Antifa-aligned, is to try and label anyone they don't like as Antifa-aligned, such as myself, and try to equate protest with terrorism. And that has really dangerous implications for civil liberties in this country.

There was no way to legitimately defend Antifa. When you try to nip “fascism” in the bud, you yourself become the fascist. The American colonies declared independence only after “a history of repeated injuries and usurpations” occurred. A knee-jerk reaction to perceived oppression only causes chaos and unprincipled revolution.

Bray continued to diminish the significance of Antifa to Cornish:

But these efforts to equate Antifa with ISIS, I mean, have you actually read what ISIS has done in the Middle East? They've slaughtered thousands of people. They've captured whole regions. What we're talking about here with Antifa is a kind of loose network of activists trying to organize against white supremacy.

On a technical level, Antifa was not a one-to-one replica of a conventional terrorist group. But their operations and organizing into unified cells had directly lead to violence, destruction of property, and civil unrest for the sake of disruption and intimidating opposition.

Did that remind you of anyone else?

Cornish further teed up Bray into bashing Trump’s efforts to combat rampant violence (Click “expand”):

CORNISH: But we hear a White House that is saying they are going to make a — bring to bear the federal government on pursuing individuals they feel fall in line with this movement.

BRAY: Well, we have to see this as connected to sending the National Guard into Democratic cities. We have to see this as connected to the massive funding given to ICE. They're really disregard for civil liberties. Detaining documented and undocumented people, putting them in detention centers where their rights are being stripped away from them.

Designating Antifa as a “Domestic Terrorist Organization,” mass-deporting illegal immigrants and deploying the National Guard were related in that they were the means by which Trump’s campaign to restore law and order was implemented.

Bray then characterized the designation like a sticker that could be slapped onto anything to create fear out of thin air:

And Antifa is a useful label because people don't really understand it. They can throw it at anyone who is left of them […] Trump brought this up to manufacture outrage. This is manufactured outrage. It’s a fake crisis. This is out of the handbook of traditional authoritarianism.

Then explain the dozens of Antifa-driven antagonists arrested just this past year alone. Bray even mentioned, “Anti-fascists haven't even been in the news for five years.”

Maybe it’s time that changed. Looking at you, CNN.

The transcript is below. Click "expand" read:

CNN This Morning
October 9, 2025
6:50:57 a.m. EST

AUDIE CORNISH: The Trump administration is vowing to use the full weight of the federal government to wipe out Antifa. The President has already declared Antifa an international terrorist organization. Here’s how his Homeland Security chief sees it.

[Cuts to video]

SEC. KRISTI NOEM [on 10/08/25]: This network of Antifa is just as sophisticated as MS-13, as TDA, as ISIS, as Hezbollah, as Hamas, as all of them. They are just as dangerous. They have an agenda to destroy us, just like the other terrorists we’ve dealt with for many, many years. [Transition] These individuals do not just want to threaten our law enforcement officers, threaten our journalists, and the citizens of this country. They want to kill them.

[Cuts back to live]

CORNISH: Traditionally, Antifa has not been seen as a formal organization, for instance, with a leader or hierarchy or command structure. And our next guest is actually an expert on the topic, author and Rutgers University professor Mark Bray, who is actually relocating his family because he says he's received threats and calls for his firing after an online petition last week accused him of being Antifa-aligned.

Joining me now to discuss, the author of that book, as we said. His book is called Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook. Mark Bray, thank you for being with us. I know this has been a wild time for you.

MARK BRAY: Yeah, it really has. I've received a wave of death threats. My home address was posted online. There's been a campaign of harassment. But the Rutgers student body, the Rutgers faculty, really are standing behind me. So I feel very supported by my friends and comrades.

CORNISH: Now, as we said, you are a researcher who's kind of studied this movement. Do you think of Antifa as a movement or, as you heard the DHS Secretary say, likening it to a gang.

BRAY: Oh my gosh. No. Antifa is a kind of a politics or a movement. It's short for anti-fascist in a number of languages. Its history goes back more than 100 years to opposing Hitler and Mussolini. I bring that research to bear in my book, and you can read about it. I'm a researcher. I support anti-fascism insofar as I think fascism is not good. And I think the direction this country is heading is really, really scary. And I'm witnessing a little bit of that of myself.

But these efforts to equate Antifa with ISIS, I mean, have you actually read what ISIS has done in the Middle East? They've slaughtered thousands of people. They've captured whole regions. What we're talking about here with Antifa is a kind of loose network of activists trying to organize against white supremacy.

CORNISH: When they talk about how they plan to go after people they think are affiliated with the anti-fascist movement, they talk about going after finances. They talk about sort of trying to track people down in that way. If you're saying it's not an international terrorist organization, the way they're describing, is that even possible?

BRAY: You see, the thing is, I don't know what they actually truly believe. But the implications of this, by coming up with a phrase as broad as Antifa-aligned, is to try and label anyone they don't like as Antifa-aligned, such as myself, and try to equate protest with terrorism. And that has really dangerous implications for civil liberties in this country.

CORNISH: I know that this online petition, I think it came from Turning Point USA. I know this has been a long running conversation, right? Especially on the right, about the idea of Antifa and what it does. As a researcher, do you know people who work in this world or who believe they're aligned with this movement? And is this something that they are starting to talk about?

BRAY: Well, for my book, I interviewed more than 60 anti-fascists from 17 different countries. So certainly I know some people who have done work against fascism who have organized in groups. But, you know, again, I'm not really part of that world. I'm not in in those conversations. I'm a researcher. I'm a dad. I'm just trying to kind of live my life here. And it's really, I think, hypocritical for the alleged, you know, free speech absolutists of Turning Point USA to basically try to use cancel culture against me simply because they don't like my ideas.

CORNISH: In the meantime, what are you going to be watching for going forward? I know you'll be focused on the safety of your family. But we hear a White House that is saying they are going to make a — bring to bear the federal government on pursuing individuals they feel fall in line with this movement.

BRAY: Well, we have to see this as connected to sending the National Guard into Democratic cities. We have to see this as connected to the massive funding given to ICE. They're really disregard for civil liberties. Detaining documented and undocumented people, putting them in detention centers where their rights are being stripped away from them.

This is part of a broader concern. And Antifa is a useful label because people don't really understand it. They can throw it at anyone who is left of them. Anti-fascists haven't even been in the news for five years. Trump brought this up to manufacture outrage. This is manufactured outrage. It’s a fake crisis. This is out of the handbook of traditional authoritarianism.

CORNISH: Mark Bray, thank you so much for speaking with us.

BRAY: Thank you for having me.