James Carville says that “reliable sources” have described the current state of President Donald Trump’s White House as even more chaotic than his first term.

“Internal stuff. I’ve heard, you know, secondhand, people that have been to the White House. … It’s nuttier than you even think!” the longtime Democratic strategist said 19 minutes into Monday’s episode of the Substack video podcast “The Jim Acosta Show.”

“This is secondhand information,” Carville continued. “Some of it is gossip, but pretty reliable people are coming out of there saying, ‘Man,’ you know, ‘bleep this!’”

When host Acosta pointed out that internal sources described Trump’s White House as being pretty unhinged “the first time around,” Carville explained why it’s even worse now.

“There was a lot of resistance in the government. There’s none this time, he knows that,” Carville said of Trump’s first term, before listing former Cabinet members like Jeff Sessions, Miles Taylor, Rex Tillerson and John Kelly, who’ve said they tried to curb some of Trump’s worst instincts.

“They’re not calling each other and saying ‘Shit, what are we doing here?,’” Carville said of Trump’s current staff. “And he’s aware, he’s got literally planted people. And however bad you think the ‘headline people’ are, the undersecretaries and the administrative assistants, and the this and the that, are ten times worse.”

Although earlier in his podcast interview with Acosta, Carville admitted that he’s “panicked” about Trump’s White House, he did offer what he thinks is Democrat’s best play to combat the president’s more unhinged ideas, like annexing Canada, or using military force to take over the Panama Canal and Greenland: to just, well, ignore it.

“He has no intention of following up on any of it,” Carville said, 11 minutes into the episode. “He couldn’t find the Panama Canal zone if you gave him GPS and a hundred years, alright? I really don’t think he could point to Greenland on a map.”

Carville said Trump is merely trying to dominate the news cycle — a point other experts and politicians like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) have also made.

“None of it’s going to happen. He’s going to get bored by this,” Carville said.

“I am encouraging Democrats to adopt a strategy of retreat,” Carville said a little over a minute into the interview, comparing this tactic to legendary boxer Muhammad Ali’s rope-a-dope strategy. This boxing tactic, coined by Ali, involved leaning on the ropes and pretending to be flailing in the fight. He’d block punches while his opponent went to town on him. This helped Ali preserve his energy, and would eventually exhaust his opponent, making them vulnerable to Ali’s attack once he got back into the middle of the ring.

“Just let [Trump] swing away for five rounds,” Carville said. “Because he can’t keep up with it. … I don’t think we need to contest everything, just let him throw haymakers. And just bob and weave and he’s going to punch himself totally out.”